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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Miriamma Mae Carson 
May 10, 1992 
Cassette 1, Side 1 
 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  00:01 
Thursday, 1992, and my name is Kirsten Anderberg, and this is an interview with Miriamma 
Carson. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  00:12 
I was at Reed College, a freshman, I came back after Christmas and decided to sleep with my 
boyfriend. And so, being a clever lass, it was early 1960, I decided that I should get birth control 
first, and diaphragm being the only real method besides condoms, which I didn't really trust, 
thinking that birth control should be kept in the hands of me, who was the one who was going to 
pay for it if it didn't work out, I went to a gynecologist up someplace, and anyway, I had an 
examination. And after the examination, the gynecologist told me that I had something wrong 
with me physically, so I couldn't have sex, or couldn't have babies without having an operation. I 
was quite astonished to hear this, because I'd never been told anything was wrong with me 
before, and I didn't actually take it very seriously and--but I thought I wouldn't have sex. I was a 
virgin at this time, of course. And so then sometime later--I told my boyfriend--so then sometime 
later, my boyfriend and I were making out in a hearse in the parking lot of the men's dorm, which 
we often did, and one thing sort of was leading to another, and so I said, Nuts to it, let's do it 
anyway. So we attempted to do it anyway, and it hurt just a tiny bit, hardly at all really, but I 
was, of course having heard this stuff, naturally, that worried me. So I thought we should stop, so 
we did. And then there was this odd blood on the sleeping bag we'd been lying on, which I had 
no clue what it was. And so that was that. And then summertime came, and I went home, and I 
told my mother that someone had told me there was something wrong with me and I couldn't 
have sex or have babies. So she said, Well, that's very strange. So, she took me to her doctor. Her 
doctor examined me and said, There's absolutely nothing wrong with you. [Inaudible] off. But of 
course, what was wrong with me was no longer there. But I guess these people had never seen a 
hymen before or something [laughs]. So then when I went back to school the next fall, I went to 
somebody else on Irving Street in Portland and got my diaphragm. Of course, it was fit 
underneath the sheets. Then they gave me a prescription, and I went to the pharmacy, picked up 
this box, and took it home and tried to figure out what to do with it. But it actually worked fine. I 
didn't get pregnant for a long time [laughs], not while I was using it. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  02:42 
So was birth control easy to get for you? 
Page 2 of 14 
 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  02:45 
It was. Well, it's pretty easy, yeah, so that was okay. But that--see, I said I was engaged when I 
went to this first doctor.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  03:28 
Oh, so you felt you had to say you were engaged to get birth control? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  03:16 
I did feel I had to say I was engaged.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  03:08 
And what year was this around? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  03:03 
1960, early 1960. But I guess the doctor didn't believe I was engaged, or I guess my mother 
should have taken me if I would have been truly engaged [laughs]. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  03:35 
So when did you get pregnant for the first time? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  03:16 
When I was 21 and married. I'd been married for almost a year when I got pregnant. 11 months. 
And it was pretty funny, because we were using withdrawal--or the diaphragm, and at this 
particular time, he thought I had the diaphragm in and I thought he was gonna use withdrawal. 
So of course, the obvious happened. And I said, I don't have my diaphragm in, and he said, Well 
[laughs]. So, I only had intercourse without protection once, and I got my son. I've actually only 
had intercourse without protection twice in my life, two children. So it's a good thing I always 
[inaudible]. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  03:37 
I know, gee! Did you know about your body when you were pregnant with your first kid? Did 
you have a hospital birth?  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  04:05 
Yes, unfortunately. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  04:07 
With a male doctor?  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  04:08 
Oh, yes.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  04:10 
And did you already know things you know now about women's health?  
 
Page 3 of 14 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  04:28 
Well, no. I probably knew more than the average person. But-- 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  04:41 
Why was that?  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  03:18 
Well, because things were so open in my family. Wasn't any weirdness about sex. I always 
thought that was odd, because I thought that my mother's mother was Irish, which meant she was 
Catholic. So I was always really confused about that. I couldn't--I never could figure out why 
Mother was so reasonable about sex. But then last year, I found out that my grandmother was 
Irish, but her father was Irish, her mother was Jewish. And Jews don't have the same kind of 
insanity around sex that Irish [?towns?] have. So that's, I guess, where we got our reasonable 
upbringing on that subject.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  05:06 
Well, my mom was open, but I still didn't understand anything when it came to being pregnant 
and giving birth. Nobody told me about what was happening. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  05:17 
You mean, before you were pregnant?  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  05:18 
Yeah, I didn't know the body things that were happening to me, but you seem to have known 
what was happening, huh? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  05:25 
Well, on what level?  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  05:27 
Like, I mean, I was incredibly trusting. I just figured if it happened, it was right. And I didn't 
have anything... 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  05:35 
I didn't have anything bad happen to me. I didn't get morning sickness.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  05:39 
Well, so, where did you get your interest in women's health? Did you already have it back then? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  05:44 
Well, I had this rather hideous, horrible, awful, disgusting birth from where I got scopolamine. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  05:51 
The birth you were just talking about? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  05:52 
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Yeah, was my 20 [inaudible], and afterwards, my husband of that time was in a career 
counseling business. He gave me this career counseling test, and to both of our surprises, doctor 
is what came out. And--but then I had read this book recently, I read this book around that same 
time called The Intern, which was a very interesting book. It was this man had gone to med 
school, and then he was doing his internship, and then when he would come home to his wife, he 
would talk into a tape recorder, and then eventually, some years later, he typed it up, and it was 
published as a book for him. And it was sort of like his story through internship, but it was really 
real, because he did it when he was still exhausted. And it came to me, reading that, that I 
couldn't be a good mother and do an internship, so I thought I couldn't go to medicine, and I 
never wanted to be a nurse. So then later, when I was able to do-- 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  06:51 
Why didn't you want to be a nurse?  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  06:53 
Because my father said nurses are servants to doctors, and if you want to go into medicine, be a 
doctor [laughs]. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  07:03 
What I've said all along, that's good. So you didn't feel you could be a doctor, because it'd be too 
kind--time consuming while you had a kid. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  07:11 
Right. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  07:12 
So what'd you do instead? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  07:14 
Oh, I was a computerist in the Aerospace Corporation. Everything I did is now done by a 
computer. I calculated things, and I drew graphs of things. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  07:26 
Well, how did you end up getting medical--you went to medical training.  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  07:30 
Well, then when I was pregnant with my second child--well actually, I don't know if I knew I 
was pregnant, but anyway, I went to this self-help classes at the Women's Center in Los Angeles 
that became the Feminist Women's Health Center. And I found out about this kind of class--that 
this kind of class was possible, and so then I applied to it; the Women's Healthcare Specialist 
Training Program. So, then I applied to it then. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  08:01 
And why was it okay then? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  08:03 
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Well, I'd never heard of it, didn't [?thought?] it existed. So I applied to it of course, and I got in, 
and so I went to school, [inaudible]. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  08:11 
And it was centered on women's health from a feminist viewpoint. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  08:13 
Well, there was somewhat of a feminist viewpoint, but I already had the feminist viewpoint, so 
[inaudible]-- 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  08:18 
How long have you had this feminist viewpoint [laughs]? By the way. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  08:23 
Well, mostly I got it after my second divorce. But a lot of it was activation of stuff my mother 
had said. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  08:35 
And obviously your father too, told you not to be a nurse. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  08:38 
And my father, yeah, yeah. Well, my father was quite wonderful. He, you know, washed the 
dishes and stuff and took care of his kids a lot. He washed clothes [inaudible]. But he's an 
engineer and he's a very reasonable person. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  08:54 
So when--so you took this class and it taught you more about women's health? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  08:59 
You mean the class with the feminist women's perspective? 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  09:02 
Yeah. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  09:02 
Yeah, it was a self-help class. We did speculative science and menstrual cycle stuff. Yogurt for 
vaginal yeast infections. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  09:10 
Oh, I remember. Yeah, you're the one that got me on that.  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  09:12 
Yep. Works, it's cheap. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  09:14 
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That's all I ever use now. Yeah, it's really cheap, and feels good, too. [Inaudible]. So then you got 
into women's-- did you use that knowledge to actually go to work? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  09:28 
Well, as soon as I graduated from the--well, see, I was working. Before I met Don, my third 
husband, when I only had one child, I was working at Venice Family Planning in Venice, 
California. And I worked there for about a year, and I quit not long before I had my child. So I 
quit in '70. Well, the end of '72 is when I quit. So I worked there for the year of '72 basically. 
And while I was working there, I met Don and... [inaudible]. And--no, I think I met him before I 
started working there, but... I don't remember the question. Oh, yes, I remember the question. I--
so I started working there, and I was doing basically the paperwork for DSHS people who are 
coming there to get birth control. And then birth control pill counseling, like, basically, people 
would come and I would do the preliminary stuff: ask them the questions, and get their blood 
pressure and weight, and start them off on pills, and then if they had complications, they'd come 
back and I'd change their pills. So I got to be pretty good at that.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  10:41 
And you just did pills, you didn't do counseling for diaphragms and other things? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  10:45 
I did counseling for diaphragm, but I couldn't fit the diaphragm. Somebody else fit the 
diaphragms, but I did counseling for diaphragms, all methods of birth control basically. I didn't 
know how to use them, except on the [inaudible].  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  10:54 
Did you have a personal preference? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  10:57 
Well, at that time, I was very pro-diaphragm because, well, I just really--I think condoms are 
lovely, but I just can't imagine trusting anyone else [inaudible]. But--because the pill was kind 
of--it was coming out that it was dangerous at that time, and IUDs are just too--were just too 
scary, these [inaudible] shields there. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  11:21 
Well, now you don't think diaphragms are the best now? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  11:25 
Well, now I think--I think for one thing, I've seen a greater variety of women, so that I think that 
that no one method is right for everybody, and the pills are greatly improved. They're much, 
much, much safer than they used to be. So, I think the pills are a fine thing for almost everybody 
to use, provided, of course, they want to use them, because some people can't remember pills, 
and other people won't really use them, and they're happy with the diaphragm or some other 
method. And the shot, which was being used at that time there--and very badly, very stupidly, 
was--is also a very good method for the right people, and I can handle it properly now. Which I 
didn't use it for years and years and years because it can go bad so easily. 
 
Page 7 of 14 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  12:09 
Which? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  12:09 
The Depo-Provera shot. People don't be intelligent about it. It can hurt [inaudible]. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  12:15 
So you use the things you learned from that class you used at the Venice Women's Center then, 
right?  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  12:28 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  12:29 
And then you probably learned stuff at the Women's Center in Venice? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  12:29 
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  12:30 
And then... What, you took some time off in between there, and then came to Seattle? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  12:35 
Well, then--so stopped working about eight months, I guess. But Mark was a month late, so I 
was off work two months. And then I had Marcus, he was born in February, and then I applied to 
that program, the women's healthcare specialist training program, UCLA Harbor Hospital, and--  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  12:53 
Oh, so you hadn't had the training yet when you worked at Venice. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  12:54 
No, I didn't do it-- 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  12:55 
That was just--you just decided to go do that.  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  12:56 
Yeah, they had a job opening in the paper, so I did. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  12:57 
So you went from computerist to healthcare worker. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  13:10 
Well, I, after--I quit as a computerist to go to college because I was going to get my master's 
degree in math and teach math in a community college. But on the way, I got married to 
somebody--to my second husband, and then I stopped going to school because he wanted me to 
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keep the house up there. But unfortunately, then he decided to run off. So then I had to support 
myself, and so the Venice Family Planning job was one of the jobs I got back, the last one. And 
then, before I got that job, I met Don, and then--so--then I went to the training program, which 
was six months long.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  13:55 
And you did that as a single parent?  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  13:57 
No. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  13:58 
You're still married.  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  13:58 
I had Don, yeah, and Don was just wonderful. He took care of the baby, and he did everything. 
All I had to do was nurse the baby. It was just wonderful. And he took care [?Dad?] stuff. It was 
just grand. He did the meals, cleaned the house, did the diapers, everything, it was just grand. So 
that was wonderful because I had no distractions, really, and I was able to learn everything they 
wanted us learn, which is... So, then I finished that, then I came up here because we thought that 
if I got a job down there, we'd never leave. And I really wanted to leave. Don wasn't as hot to 
leave as I was, but I was very hot to leave. So, we came up here and started working at Fremont 
Women's Clinic, and that was a feminist collective [inaudible]. So anyway, I don't know. It's 
really hard to talk about.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  14:44 
Why? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  14:44 
Well, it's the best time of my life. You know, it was just wonderful. That was really [?awkward?] 
for me. You know, everybody grew a lot. I got to grow a lot. It was a real communal experience. 
And my friends are all from that period. My closest friends are all from that time period. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  15:06 
Did you feel that's where you met most of the community that you're part of too, from that? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  15:26 
Yeah. Well, that and also a [?nan?]. I was a [?nan?] too. But that's the biggest part. That's the 
biggest thing. It was--I came up in 1974 and I was the first licensed person there. It's too bad 
there aren't other people here to talk about it, because I'm not good at talking about this kind of 
stuff. But the clinic had been in its current location for a year, and had been elsewhere previously 
for a year, but they never had a licensed person on staff. They had what they called paras, which 
were people who were trained by themselves, and then from Our Bodies Ourselves, and classes 
that were given by the one women's healthcare specialist in town for everybody, all the women's 
clinics. And they had a doctor on Wednesday nights. They had one gynecologist who came once 
a month, who was a community gynecologist, who donated his time. He was in the middle of a 
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divorce and was then later [?joined?] out of town, and then residents from the U and from Group 
Health, and a lot of women who were just totally motivated and just worked their buns off. And 
we tried to get more funding we could. We got donations to the patients and we got CEDA 
money later on. Oh, Model Cities Fund, they had Model Cities money. Different kinds of 
programs like that. And most--some of us who worked there were sort of revolutionaries, of a 
socialist, feminist, Marxist point of view, which was mine, and others weren't. Others were just 
interested in healthcare for themselves, but all of my friends were--I mean, all the people I still--
I'm in contact were revolutionaries. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  17:16 
Did you feel like doing that was a political act, a little bit? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  17:23 
Oh, yeah, completely.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  17:24 
Why? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  17:26 
Well, for one thing, I wasn't good at organizing people to do things, and I can't do the big picture. 
You know, I can't be a political organizer. I couldn't be a president or a legislature. I could be 
like a committee member or an aide in charge of this. It's the kind of life I have. I could see it all, 
but I can't keep it all together. And... So, I was a member of a revolutionary organization, 
Socialist Feminist Organization. I was a recording secretary of that organization, and I sort of 
helped out on projects other people thought up. I couldn't think of one myself, and I couldn't run 
a project. So, what we did the clinic was that we were political in many respects. One respect 
was that we were a hub of information, so that with demonstrations in different organizations, we 
had the literature there all the time. And in another respect, we were revolutionary in that all of 
the revolutionary people could come to us, and they would get care sensitive to who they were. 
And then third way, we encouraged women to take power over our own health care and our own 
lives, and we kind of pushed a feminist agenda, in a way. I mean, people have a lot of blathery 
ideas about what feminism is these days, as they did then. And so, we saw it as women taking 
power of our lives and doing what we wanted to do in a powerful sort of way, whether it be 
quote, traditional things or non-traditional things. And we had nine non-hierarchical 
organization, and we didn't have--everybody did everything, except that when I came, I was the 
only person with a license. So they decided I should be receptionist. I was receptionist one night, 
that was a problem, because I kept on having to go upstairs and check out problems. So anyway, 
they decided I shouldn't be receptionist anymore. And then gradually, as we developed, we--
people sort of concentrated in different areas, like some people concentrated in the lab, and some 
people concentrated administration. One person concentrated in bookkeeping, because it sort of 
grew out as a--in a natural, sort of organic way that people needed to concentrate in different 
things, different areas. And you know, a lot of people like to say that collectivity is a failure 
because of that, because we didn't all continue doing the same thing. But I really can't say that, 
because since we did it that way, and since I have done everything, I've done that, I've done 
administration, I've done bookkeeping, I've done janitorial. Because we, of course, we cleaned 
the place ourselves. Yeah, we cleaned every day, and then we had a big cleanup once a week, 
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and we all did. Since I've done all of those things, I feel that I am really appreciative of the work, 
and understand the problems of all of those jobs, and also I understand the things that can be 
done. In the past, I have worked with--when I have worked with good administrators since then, 
they have liked me very much, because I really appreciate a good administrator, and I know what 
a good administrator can do, so I don't expect them to be able to fly to the moon. On the other 
hand, I do expect them to be able to keep things running orderly, and I know what to expect. I 
expect the right things. So they're pleased. And then the same with the lab, and I know where 
fuck-ups can come in the lab, and I know how--what I can do to keep those fuck-ups from 
happening so frequently. So that's really good. And then I know what it's like to clean the clinic, 
and what an alienating process that is. So that, I think, when I talk to cleaning people, I can--I 
think--well, I think that cleaning  people are much happier cleaning for [?women?] anyways, and 
they do a better job. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  21:54 
Sounds like. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  21:57 
So, it's just all those different things. And--I mean, everybody doing everything didn't work, but 
if you look always at the very--if you look at things as an end like that, you miss a lot. The 
process is what's really important. And I was a very end person when I came to the clinic. And I 
learned to process at the clinic, sometimes I've got it shoved down my throat, which was a bit of 
a drag. And there are a few phrases that could throw me and my friends into absolute hysterics 
from process days. But it was really good. It was really good to see people grow and develop, 
and the women who come out of there have done a lot of great things.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  22:46 
Yeah, have you--have you had satisfaction from seeing a lot of your patients in the world?  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  22:47 
Oh, god yes.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  22:47 
Because every woman I know, actually went to you [laughs]. As I've said, you've seen the inside 
of more women than I can believe. You know, so that must give you a sense of community asset, 
you know that you-- 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  23:08 
You know, it's a funny thing. When I grew up, I just thought that the only thing that was 
important was, you know, your family and a man, and... you know. It's funny, but that kind of 
thing, having this kind of community, and all these women, sort of like a school teacher seeing 
their pupils go into greater and greater things. It's been sort of that way, and it's just incredibly 
satisfying to go places, and I go places and I meet my patients, you know, and it's just grand to 
meet them and see them and talk to them. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  23:39 
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Do you have any highlight--things that are either, you know, really odd or interesting, or things 
you learned that were just incredible there, that you'll never forget? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  23:51 
Well, sometimes I think my life began there, the worthwhile parts of it. Everything I learned, 
came from there. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  23:58 
But you were a feminist before, so that's really interesting how that works. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  24:01 
Yeah, but you know, growing up in a dysfunctional, isolated family, set down in probably a 
worse dysfunctional world than the one that was at home. You have the ideas, but you don't 
know how... I mean, reinventing the wheel is something that you get to do a lot [laughs]. We did 
it a lot at the clinic, and it's a very good process, and it wastes a bit of time, if you're into not 
wasting time, but it's a great process. And it's like any idea that its application to all the little 
nooks and crannies of life takes forever to figure out. So... Like that. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  25:04 
Yeah, I could see that. You were able to use it more. You know what do things-- 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  25:08 
Yeah, like so many different minds thinking about it all the time, and we had these lovely three-
hour weekly meetings.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  25:14 
Did you feel that was really important to your evolution? Do you think you could have done this 
alone in a city in Kansas where you were the only feminist woman-- 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  25:25 
Oh, no. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  25:27 
You felt that it was really important to have those other women-- 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  25:29 
Oh, absolutely. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  25:30 
And that you all kind of grew together-- 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  25:32 
Oh, absolutely. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  25:32 
More than each one of you individually.  
Page 12 of 14 
 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  25:34 
Oh, yeah, absolutely.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  25:35 
Through talks? Through just doing these things together? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  25:37 
Well, we talked all the time. We were all college people, some more than other, so we talked 
constantly.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  25:43 
Oh, that's interesting. You felt most people at the Fremont clinic were college-educated? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  25:48 
To some extent, yeah. Some graduates [?another time?]. All, to some extent. [Inaudible]. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  25:55 
Did you find one healthcare issue that was more--that you came across over and over that you 
couldn't believe you had to keep coming across, or anything? Like, did you see any blatant 
differences between the standard way of medicine and what you saw there?  
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  26:10 
Oh, of course. Course. The standard way of medicine is to give somebody a diagnosis, a 
prescription, a pat on the head. We didn't do things like that. We explained what we were doing, 
and we showed women their cervixes, and their vulvas, and they could feel their uteruses and 
that sort of thing, and pointed out their parts, and we explained what they had, their diagnosis, 
and we explained why they got it and how they could keep from having it. And we often gave 
them alternatives for treatment so they could decide which treatment they wanted to do. And we 
had lots and lots of printed stuff, like, how to not to get a bladder infection is my favorite piece 
of printed stuff. And, you know, I'm just so in love with this whole attack on vitamins now, it's 
just so grand. This guy I've been seeing says-- 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  27:08 
This guy what? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  27:09 
This guy I've been seeing was wondering about this attack on vitamins, and he's saying, Would 
you--he said he thought the pharmaceutical companies were behind it. I said, Well, I know why 
you can think of that--why you think that. Just because, if you feel a bladder infection coming 
on, usually you can take two 500 milligrams of Vitamin C, a lot of water, and you won't have to 
buy a 15 to $50 prescription. So, [laughs] like that, you know? And... 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  27:56 
And so, did you--where--did you meet Doris through the feminist--the Fremont clinic? 
 
Page 13 of 14 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  28:00 
Not directly. Did I meet her indirectly? I was going out with a man, and I met her as well. Where 
the hell did I meet that man?  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  28:05 
So it seemed like you--did you meet another group of the feminists’ culture here in Seattle 
through her too? Because she kind of had the musical end, right? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  28:16 
Yeah. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  28:16 
So it seems like you already had--you had a connection through the Fremont Women's Clinic 
with all these radical feminists, and then she's here, into radical feminist music, right? Yeah. And 
so that had probably expanded your culture group even more, right? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  28:29 
It did, yeah. And then the organization I was involved with, New American Movement, where--
first of all, we started SOCNAR, the Seattle Organizing Committee for a New American 
Revolution. And then we--and the basic-- 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  28:43 
Is that one of those end things or process? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  28:45 
Oh, process.  
 
Kirsten Anderberg  28:45 
Okay. 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  28:46 
That's process. And the reason they started that was because a lot of people wanted to join them, 
but we didn't--but, I guess--well, see, I didn't form that, my husband formed that. He was one of 
the founding members of that. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  29:00 
Of NAM? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  29:02 
No, of SOCNAR. And then after he disappeared, then I started going to those meetings. That was 
when I became recording secretary. It was a few months after it was founded, and that was a 
whole bunch of very political feminists with definite Marxist point of view. And there were also 
anarchist feminists there too. And then, we had these big discussions whether to join NAM or 
not, the anarchists left, but they stayed friends. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  29:28 
Page 14 of 14 
 
And NAM is what? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  29:29 
New American Movement. It was an organization that then--then they merged with DESOC, 
Democratic Organizing Committee, who regarded themselves as the left wing of the Democratic 
Party. And our particular group in Seattle--there were two Seattle groups. Our particular group in 
Seattle didn't go along with that merger because we didn't want to become the left wing or 
democratic, because we felt that we would have no power. And indeed, you haven't heard a thing 
from that group [laughs]. Was Michael Harrington's group. Occasionally hear something from 
Michael Harrington, but not the group. Whereas you still hear a lot from us. Anyway. So, I don't 
know. So, I guess I did know three groups of feminists, the ones at the clinic, and the ones in the 
music business, I never got along with the ones in the music business too well. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  30:25 
You're kidding. Why not [laughs]? 
 
Miriamma Mae Carson  30:29 
Well, they were--I don't know. It just seems they weren't responsible enough. They just would 
sort of say things. And I guess the sort of--I don't know, I guess, because I'm not artistic, I didn't 
appreciate this sort, it seemed like it was quite irresponsible. And then also it seemed like... It 
seemed like a lot of those people did a lot of sort of trippy things, sort of to amuse themselves, 
but in public, which I thought gave us all a bad name. [Inaudible]. 
 
Kirsten Anderberg  31:06 
So what do you think, feminist performer? 